Winton Red Sedan Project

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Winton Red Sedan Project

by utility8 » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:49 am

Well, here we go again for more headaches. I bought this Winton Red EH Special Sedan about 10 years ago.

A shot of the Winton Red Sedan taken recently with my new found enthusiasm.

It was a one owner and was being sold as the old fella was starting to suffer from dementia. At the time, I paid around $1600 for the keys. It was registered & drivable, but not real safe. It had never had seat belts fitted nor a radio. A dent in the dash, below the glove box, is where some poor sap hit their knee in a minor crash. Ouch!

Although drivable, the 179 & Hydramatic were in poor shape. The motor had plenty of water in the oil & oil in the radiator water. The Hydramatic, as with many, flared through the changes & had a shudder on its way back down. The trim was what can be expected of a well used 35 year old car at the time. Door trims good, seats ripped & sagging.

Not a fan of driving unknown quantities, I had it flat towed home & into the garagemahal it went.

At the time, the plans where to maintain rego, something I did for 4 years before realising I was spending money for no reason. Plans included replacing the motor & trans with a 202 & trimatic using a set of X2 twin carbies for induction. HR front end, lowered a touch, with HQ front brakes from my ute. Retain the banjo rear, but fit up Commodore rear discs using a dual circuit master/vac system as I have recently fitted to my ute. A 3.36:1 LSD & lowered ute 6 leaf springs completed the rear end. Wheels, the old Dragway Draglites from my ute, 15x6 & 15x7. Once completed, drive it as a daily kind of thing.

I was lucky, or unlucky, to have all of the major components needed from various other cars over the years to throw at the project. Cost wise, the idea was to keep a lid on it. Realistically, that was achievable. The other components that I needed to source included inertia belts, carpet, seats in better nick, exhaust & venetians for that classic granddad look. As with any project like this, a myriad of other bits & pieces as you go along.

My idea was to keep the body & trim as it was. As the body of the car was extremely good with no rust, and paint reasonable, I was not interested in travelling the path of a full strip down type of resto. The only floor work required was a left rear floor pan & a patch to the front driver?s side, 100mm square. Along the way, inertia seat belt mounts were sorted out. Guess who, the one & only Mr.Wizard did all the floor work & belt mounts.

Inertia seat belt top mount.

A recent shot of the front floor area. Very happy as floors are quite good. Left rear floor replacement is just visible.

A shot of the right side lower door corners, again happy. This is typical of the condition of the car.

All things taken into account, I am real happy with the body. Although the paint is far from perfect, that is how it will stay.

As can be seen in the first shot, I am traveling the path of VK Commodore injection on the Red 202 block. I hope to be able to string the story together so that it may help anyone looking to do this induction upgrade. From all reports, it should make a lively combo on top of the 202.

Happy Days.
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Re: Winton Red Sedan Project

by Ray » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:41 pm

sounds great! looks like a good starter.

when i first started my car, i was about 15. and realy hadn't seen any cars pulled apart, or looked under any cars to see what they were like, or what work had been done.

so to me, the absence or rust in my floor, doors, guards, quarters was all normal. wasn't till i started looking at other potential projects i seen that... these things rust. and good cars with little rust, (to start with) are few and far between. if you read my project you will see only one post talking about rust repair because thats all there was. one dogleg, thats it.

i think your sitting on a gold mine.

i also read somewher that ute you got in the background there has next to no rust as well. your doing alright in my mind.

cheers, have fun with it.
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Re: Winton Red Sedan Project

by Rodretro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:42 pm

nice looking starter will be interested in seeing how it comes along

cheers Rod
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Re: Winton Red Sedan Project

by black63 [old] » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:27 pm

ive got 2 dents a little bigger just below my glovebox aswel, popular place for the knees to go ay
i like the colour. ill be following your injection info
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Re: Winton Red Sedan Project

by utility8 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:59 pm

Thanks guys, shows the benefits of seat belts!

As I have scoured the car top to bottom, I know where any problems
may crop up. One spot is the rear window. Probably got issues there that allowed water to get to the rear floor. Window out for a perished rubber replacement & rear inertia seat belt fitting should reveal all.

After completing the engine & trans swap I got the motor fired up. All was good, but then I got disinterested. How often does that happen?

Slowly, while up on stands, it turned into a storage facility.

Enthusiasm bit me again about 5 years ago. The concept of the vehicle had changed in my mind, but not drastically. The main change that I thought was a good move was to use a VK Commodore black motor injection set up on the 202 rather than the X2 twin Stromberg set up. EBay sorted out the sale of the carbies & I purchased a fan to flywheel black injected motor complete. $110 + GST. Bargain! I was in front for once. I dismantled the parts I needed, and ditched the rest. Enthusiasm waned again. This is getting to be a problem!

Recently, after a shoulder injury repair, I have had plenty of time to do nothing. So, I have again got the enthusiasm. Firstly, I needed to relieve the car of all the bits & pieces stored in, on & around it. That done, I could get back into it. This is about the time I started taking a few snaps for posterity & the forum.

First thing was to remove the red 202 head, paint the black replacement head after its reco 4 years ago & fit it. The only modification to fit the later black/blue 12 port head is to drill out 4 water gallery openings in the block to match up with the black head gasket. This is not a difficult job & easily worked out with the new head gasket.

Once the block was drilled, the head was fitted up & torqued down. Push rods & rocker assembly followed. Next, was the extractors & the injection manifold. The extractors that suit the 12 port head in the EH body are unfortunately not the ones fitted to the black motor in the Commodores. If doing this conversion, the correct ones are the design that suits WB commercials running a black/blue 6 cylinder. I have read a couple of threads recently on other forums where guys are saying that extractors for 9 port heads can be used on 12 port heads. Well, they may be able to be fitted, but really are not suitable at all. A quick comparison with a gasket will make the differences very clear. I luckily found a reasonable set on a wrecked EH with a blue motor fitted. $30 is far better than around $350 for a new set. Cleaned down & a lick of paint & the extractors are ready to fit. As I am not that familiar with the wiring & plumbing of the injection set up yet, I have left the entire connected wiring loom etc. on the manifold. The injection manifold & extractor set fitted up very easily, more easily than a standard carby & manifold.

This shows the dry fit up of the extractors after a quick coat of black heat proof paint. Probably burn off within 2 weeks of driving. Looks OK for now.

The injection manifold with all the wire loom & vacuum hoses still connected as removed from the black motor. As I was not familair, or confident, with the plumbing & wiring, I decided to fit the manifold to the motor as is. Sorting out what to remove & what to keep is the next task.

The only physical space issue with fitting the manifold so far is the battery area. Clearance for the front runner of the manifold needs to be made by cutting away the corner of the battery box. This done, the battery will just fit when moved forward in the tray.

Tony, a guy from the Vic club that has completed a couple of these conversions popped in to run me through the basics. Firstly unwrapping the loom & removing all the wires not required. Then off with the vacuum lines. Once this was done, logic starts to determine what wiring goes where.

What we have here is some of the obsolete loom & hoses.

This is the manifold with all wiring intact.

Now with all the unnecessary wiring & plumbing removed.

Once stripped down, most of the wiring is required to run to the computer. This unit I intend to mount in behind the left kick panel. I cut a hole in the fire wall, fitted a grommet, & fed the loom through.

Wanting to use a small hole, I needed to cut the wires, feed them through, then reconnect them again. The connector for the computer is quite large. I needed to label all wires before cutting to ensure they all went back together correctly. Once inside the cabin, I cut the wires to length & started to crimp/solder & use multi connector plugs. Really, looking back, all I should have done was to strip & solder each wire then heat shrink insulation over each connection. Would give a much tidier loom inside the car. I may still redo this removing the multi connectors & revert back to solder connections.

That's where I am currently at. Hope to get a little more done this week as I learn more.

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Re: Winton Red Sedan Project

by Halo1963 [old] » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:06 pm

Looking good I am also thinking of going for the fuel injection.
So please keep posting your progress.
I have one question at this stage,you are using a standard 202 red block right.
I thought the EFI requires crank sensors.
Have you got a way around this or have I got it wrong?
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Re: Winton Red Sedan Project

by peter_ejeh » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:47 pm

The VK injection was Bosch LE Jetronic. Basically an analogue electronically controlled mechanical fuel injection system. The injectors all pulse together, meaning the crank position has no relevance. Computer controlled ignition requires crank angle sensor, and that can be provided by distributor or crank sensor. The VK had standard Distributor based electronic ignition.

So if you want a sequentially fuel injected system, want to remove the distributor, or have a computer controlled ignition, then a crank angle sensor is required.
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Re: Winton Red Sedan Project

by utility8 » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:08 am

Yep, HQ 202 block out of a HD I bought years ago. Motor did run well with a carburetor, hopefully the cam will suit injection. Pete has as good a reason as any for an answer. I will be putting as much info as I can reasonably do on the forum. I am being shown what to do myself, so I wouldn't jump headlong into it without a bit of hands on guidance. Some traps I have already been shown I will definitely post soon. Learning what all the little components do to make the injection run well from cold startup is quite interesting.
Keep your eyes peeled.
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Re: Winton Red Sedan Project

by Rock_Lobster » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:30 am

Here's something for the future, and the path I am travelling down, once tinworm removal is completed.

VK injection, with a DELCO system off a VN commodore.

Tunability, and much better economy.

Using the VK EFI dizzy with a Camira module added on, the DELCO controls spark as well.

Using the VN throttlebody, you get idle control.

As the DELCO uses a MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensor, you can throw away that airflow flow restrictor (Air Flow Meter).

It's all explained here :-

( A commodore throttlebody will bolt onto the VK manifold, as shown later in that thread.)

The DELCO is now able to be programmed (using a NVRAM Memcal replacement)in real time WITHOUT needing KALMAKER. Much cheaper.

BUT, using the existing Analog controller is easier. Just something to think about.

Rock Lob
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Re: Winton Red Sedan Project

by utility8 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:21 am

I have committed myself to the standard VK setup as I dropped the distributor off for a rebuild last week. But, having said that, it is something that I may look at down the track Rock L. If I change my ideas now I'll probably never see the job through.

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